My thoughts shared with Bob Borino

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Delta75
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My thoughts shared with Bob Borino

Postby Delta75 » Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:04 pm

This is an email that I sent to Bob Borino concerning our frequent discussions about the Vietnam war.

Doesn’t seem to be any action on the website lately. Maybe this will generate a few responses...other than just Niner Alpha and Niner Delta...but I doubt it.

Email follows:

So sad when I realized that 59,000 of our Brothers died for nothing. Many Vietnam vets refuse to believe or accept that, but it is true.

I felt that way as soon as I got to Vietnam and saw the ARVN sitting around with their new M-16 and clean fatigues as we went to the field.

I felt that way even more when I returned to Vietnam and found the people to be happy...simply because the war was over, and because the corrupt South Vietnamese government that did nothing for them was gone.

They don’t especially love their present government...but then again, based on their history, they don’t trust any government. They are happy that, as long as they don’t openly criticize their government, it pretty much leaves them alone...they can travel wherever and whenever they want to in their country, and with so many foreign countries with businesses in Vietnam, jobs are available. Vietnam is communist in government only....the business world is pure Capitalism.

In summary, the people say that two things have changed...the war is over and their family is no longer being killed....and they can now go and live wherever and whenever they want to..that is, of course, good. The other is basically no change, they smile and say..now in order to get anything done, they pay bribes to the Communist government instead of to the South Vietnamese government.

I know that my Vietnamese friends in the USA will disagree with what I say, but the Vietnamese people in Vietnam have told me that they are happier now than ever before. Do they love their government....No but as long as it leaves them alone ...they are happy. They just wish that their Vietnamese brothers and sisters would stop talking about how bad things are in Vietnam when that is not the case. They invite them back to see for themselves.

Sorry I got so carried away... I’ll shut up now.
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Re: My thoughts shared with Bob Borino

Postby Niner Alpha » Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:13 pm

I agree with all you said, Jerry. It was a war we should have never took sides in and certainly never should entered into. However, that same Presidential world ordering mentality continues down to today....only grown more ominous and dangerous. We are bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan and have tried our best to start a war with Iran for which multiple Presidents share blame. At the same time our Presidents have supported some of the worst dictators in the world in exchange for bases to put ships and or missiles and planes in case we want to get into a shooting war with Russia or China. Presidents that came after Nixon, increased their defacto authority to order violence in other countries without declarations of war. This turn of events is blatantly against the Constitutional authority granted the President but the last handful of Presidents have asserted the power to drone bomb, missile attack, invade, rendition, imprison, torture, assassinate and stop international commerce in multiple countries because Congress has, and continues to, let them get away with it.

Trump was going to pull in the horns of America conducting the violent world ordering. When he won office there was that one slim sliver of hope of the end of the wars. He didn't end anything. I was reading something the other day that when Trump turned authority for drone bombing over to the CIA, etc. several times more drone bombs were unleashed on people in multiple countries in his four years than were unleashed under Obama in eight years....and that's to say nothing of the Iranian General he included in the killing while theoretically trying to extract the US from Iraq.

There is no oversight to Presidents asserting that they swore an oath to protect the people of the US, which isn't what they swore to at all, and assume they can do any thing they want to that end with no oversight. It has been that way since 9/11 and George junior got a blank check from Congress to do war any place he could find a "terrorist" and rendition and imprison and torture anyone his minions acting for him felt like in order to "protect the American people". Joe Biden has already ordered his first strike into Syria...which we aren't at war with yet...with no Congressional authority whatsoever. I guess he is "protecting the American people".
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Delta75
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Re: My thoughts shared with Bob Borino

Postby Delta75 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:40 pm

I agree. It’s very clear that Congress has no interest in controlling our entry into wars, conflicts or whatever one wants to call them.
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Re: My thoughts shared with Bob Borino

Postby Delta75 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:47 pm

More thoughts shared with Bob related to his Covid discussions with his Vietnamese barber. His barber says that bodies were stacked up in Vietnam waiting to be cremated.

BTW: My wife and I were finally able to get our first Covid shot this morning.

Email to Bob follows;

Your barber is most definitely wrong: There were no mass deaths in Vietnam because they immediately closed the China border.

Of all things, my youngest Son in Vietnam has sort of a motorcycle truck. One of his jobs is working for a coffin maker delivering coffins...at times with the bodies. We were there from November of 2019 thru June of 2020 and our Son had no more business than usual. As a matter of fact when we left Vietnam in June, there had been no Covid deaths in Vietnam..now they are I believe up to 35.

The Vietnamese people are so into email, social media, Facebook, YouTube, etc. that there is absolutely no way the Vietnamese government could have hidden mass deaths unless they totally shutdown the internet..which they did not do.

The Vietnamese Americans simply refuse to believe that anything good happens today in Vietnam. You might ask your barber when was he last in Vietnam. Of course, he might tell you last year...even those returning might refuse to believe their eyes...their hate is so strong. Guess they should have fought harder if they feel that their South Vietnamese government was so great.

Just think...the American armed forces fought their war for them for over 10 years. Then when they had to fight they couldn’t defeat the NVA when the NVA had no one helping them in actual combat as we had helped them. Yes China and Russia helped them with weapons but not with a navy, Air Force, army or marines.

If the South Vietnamese thought that their government was so great...why didn’t they fight as hard for it as did the north did for theirs? When the north invaded the south in 1975, only 2 generals stood and fought. The rest ran along with their troops. Then they were flown to safety off shore to American ships. Those 2 generals refused to be evacuated and would not leave their troops. Both ended up in the same re-education camp for 17 years but both refused to be released until their last man was released.

These generals were Le Minh Dao and Tran Quang Khoi.
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Re: My thoughts shared with Bob Borino

Postby Niner Alpha » Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:13 pm

I remember talking to a guy who had been an advisor to the ARVN during one tour. This was when the war was still very much American owned and operated. I asked him if he thought the Vietnamese he advised at the grunt level in the late 60's had a concept of fighting for freedom and liberty like American politicians sold the war to America. He said not that he could see. I asked him what he thought about the forces he was advising then if they had no political point of view what were they fighting for. He said when they were well led they fought bravely and well but when they were led by leaders that weren't interested in pressing the war the the troops weren't either.Their loyalty or lack there of only extended as far as the leader that had authority over them. Their view of the war was a lot like ours in the sense that what they wanted out of the war was for it to end with them, and as many of their relatives as possible, still alive and let the chips fall as they may politically. At least that was the conclusion I came to back in 1970.

One particular dai-uy Alpha used to work with now and again on joint operations that I observed was obviously not at all interested in doing anything more than going through the motions and absorbing whatever graft and corruption that came to hand. I sensed then that there was no likelihood of the Vietnam war ever coming to a good end by American expectations. When the VC and NVA actually seem to put their will into contacts..often when the odds were very much stacked against them..it was obvious who was likely to win in the end.
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Re: My thoughts shared with Bob Borino

Postby Delta75 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:44 pm

My last 3 months I was a was assigned to work with the ARVN to improve communication with the 6/31st. I worked with a really good ARVN sergeant and I asked him about his being promoted to Lt. He said that it would never happen because his family did not have enough money to pay for the promotion.

I also heard the same about ARVN leadership. The sad thing is that most ARVN officers bought their rank and were not good or even trained leaders. If you supported their government leaders and could pay the bribe...that was all it took.

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