Vietnam war 9th Infantry Division reenactment from Italy

Forum created for the purpose of living history and reenactor groups to interact with former veterans of the 6th battalion of the 31st Infantry
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Gabriel Cale
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Re: Vietnam war 9th Infantry Division reenactment from Italy

Postby Gabriel Cale » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:05 am

Blue Legs wrote:Man I have to say...y'all's stuff is legit! It certainly looks like you've put a lot of time and effort into what you guys are doing. We certainly hope that our unit can get to where you guys are. If you don't ming me asking, where do you guys find most of your gear and uniforms?

Most of the time we find the stuff on Ebay, but there are a few "online marketplaces" on facebook especially from U.S.A.
Here in Europe the stuff is often overpriced, in America it's so much better! :)
Here's a picture of some stuff of my personal Vietnam collection:
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It's not just a hobby, it's really a passion that i have (together with the passion for the music!)
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Blue Legs
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Re: Vietnam war 9th Infantry Division reenactment from Italy

Postby Blue Legs » Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:36 pm

Wow! That's an impressive collection. Not sure that I'll ever have that much stuff...this is an expensive hobby. I do get most of my stuff from eBay. Is any of your stuff reproduction?
Giovanni R.
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Re: Vietnam war 9th Infantry Division reenactment from Italy

Postby Giovanni R. » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:30 pm

Hello Blue legs, I was just going to write something on the post you opened on the forum, is nice to see that someone else is starting reenactment of the unit! If you want we can share with you some reference and sources, especially if you have a facebook account there are several interesting groups where you can find good stuff for good prices.. :wink:
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Blue Legs
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Re: Vietnam war 9th Infantry Division reenactment from Italy

Postby Blue Legs » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:31 pm

That would be great! I'll shoot you a PM with a link to my Facebook.
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Gabriel Cale
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Re: Vietnam war 9th Infantry Division reenactment from Italy

Postby Gabriel Cale » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:02 pm

Hello, I just got a Starlight scope (sadly non functioning) for my 9th ID sniper display, here's a picture of it! :)
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I also made a few pics of a rifleman impression, hope you like it!
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Niner Alpha
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Re: Vietnam war 9th Infantry Division reenactment from Italy

Postby Niner Alpha » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:37 pm

Looks like you are getting it down pretty good,Gabe. Nice addition of the starlight scope.

How's your band doing? I've seen some of your video's you have the sound down. Have you had any hits? Maybe do more cover tunes would get you some bigger recognition.

This is the one that ties two of your interests together. It's number one on the veteran hit parade I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJVpihgwE18
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Re: Vietnam war 9th Infantry Division reenactment from Italy

Postby Giovanni R. » Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:09 pm

Also, this is our first try with the "stove" pants, made with cut out socks:

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Re: Vietnam war 9th Infantry Division reenactment from Italy

Postby Niner Alpha » Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:04 pm

Nice assortment of "captured" weapons. Can you own them without modification to make them incapable of being fired? The Brits have that problem. The WWII reenactors can only fight WWII with dummy M1 Garands when they act like US infantry....usually paratroopers for some reason. I'm not too sure they are even allowed to own actual bayonets.

The 91/30 the guy is holding. As a bolt action rifle can you own and shoot a fully working military rifle? How about the AK47? Can you own and shoot one modified to semi-auto like in the US without having a special license? What about that ..what looks to be a PPSh-41 submachine gun? Deactivated?

The socks thing was done. Somehow the guy in the photo doesn't exactly look right...although I can't put my finger on anything. Maybe the material needs to be stretched out some or the guy needs a larger pair of socks to cut the feet out of. One thing you ought to try is have the pants legs modifed from the knee down into more of a stove pipe. This was done often with at least a few pair of "owned" pants that didn't go through the company supply reissue clean for dirty thing.

I'll attach a few photos with guys with the sock top thing.
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Giovanni R.
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Re: Vietnam war 9th Infantry Division reenactment from Italy

Postby Giovanni R. » Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:45 pm

Here's another picture to see it:

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Don't know if there is actually something wrong or the first picture was just "tricky", by the socks were brand new so maybe was that.

Concerning guns, Italy has some really strict rules about, is possible to own guns, including former military rifles but only with an official licence, in any case is impossible to bring them to such events, than can only be carried to shooting ranges after apprizing authorities; also is impossible to own any full-auto gun, weapons such AK47 and such had to be modified to fire single shots only and only low capacity mags had to be used. The "captured" weapons shown are a mix of de-milled and airsoft guns borrowed from some WW2 red army re-enactors attending the same event:

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Same thing for bayonets, being considered actual weapons by the Italian law you can own them with a permit but you can't bring 'em anywere. Funny thing is that we can instead own and carry a machete to a reenactment event as it's considered a tool and not a weapon!
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Re: Vietnam war 9th Infantry Division reenactment from Italy

Postby Niner Alpha » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:20 pm

Maybe the socks are just fine. I'm no expert....it wasn't something I personally did.

The gun thing in Italy seems to be the way in Europe as a whole. I have a friend who is living in France. He is British by birth and is interested in old military guns. Up until recently the rules in France allowed individuals to own a bolt action Enfield rifle or Mauser or whatever. Only.... it had to be re-chambered for a slightly shorter round that's not an actual historical military round. The old military caliber of .3o3 wasn't allowed but a shorter "hunting" round that was essentially the same was ok for some strange reason. So he bought an old Enfield that had been modified to shoot this slightly shorter case round. I think the French have recently made a few adjustments to this law but can't remember what my friend said about it.

Some countries have more stringent laws than others I know. I have another friend who collects Mosin Nagants in Holland. He's a Warrant Officer in the Dutch Army but had to jump through all sorts of hoops to be granted a license to own a few bolt action rifles. And.... he is only allowed to fire one or two of them ...and he can't exchange places with firing ones and collecting ones. All of them are Mosin Nagants!

In the delta during my time we saw mostly AK47's. We also saw a few SKS rifles. Every once in a while you might run across a Mosin Nagant. Sometimes you might get shot at by an M16...thanks to the ARVIN connection and supply network. There were a few pistols. The TT33 was often found as a pistol. The pistols didn't have a safety. Now days the equivalent is imported in to the US for collectors....but... they have a safety added to conform to US requirements.
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Gabriel Cale
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Re: Vietnam war 9th Infantry Division reenactment from Italy

Postby Gabriel Cale » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:19 pm

Niner Alpha wrote:The gun thing in Italy seems to be the way in Europe as a whole. I have a friend who is living in France. He is British by birth and is interested in old military guns. Up until recently the rules in France allowed individuals to own a bolt action Enfield rifle or Mauser or whatever. Only.... it had to be re-chambered for a slightly shorter round that's not an actual historical military round. The old military caliber of .3o3 wasn't allowed but a shorter "hunting" round that was essentially the same was ok for some strange reason. So he bought an old Enfield that had been modified to shoot this slightly shorter case round. I think the French have recently made a few adjustments to this law but can't remember what my friend said about it.

Some countries have more stringent laws than others I know. I have another friend who collects Mosin Nagants in Holland. He's a Warrant Officer in the Dutch Army but had to jump through all sorts of hoops to be granted a license to own a few bolt action rifles. And.... he is only allowed to fire one or two of them ...and he can't exchange places with firing ones and collecting ones. All of them are Mosin Nagants!


As Giovanni said here in Italy you can own guns with a special license (that I have).
The "funny thing" is that you can own an illimited number of military and hunting guns (i have a '39 Mosin Nagant, a '43 Mauser Kar 98k, aM16A1 replica firing little pistol rounds and two hunting guns .12 cal), but you can only own at maximum THREE pistols and SIX sporting guns (with adjustable backsights). So you can fill your house with M16, Mosins etc, but you can only have three pistols (and sincerely I don't know the motivation for this thing). :)
The guns that we have are not re-chambered, they shoot the same rounds as in the past, but only with a little less power.
In the case of the pistols it's impossible to own "para bellum" rounds, because only army and police are allowed to use them.
Here are my WWII guns:
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Niner Alpha wrote:Looks like you are getting it down pretty good,Gabe. Nice addition of the starlight scope.

How's your band doing? I've seen some of your video's you have the sound down. Have you had any hits? Maybe do more cover tunes would get you some bigger recognition.

This is the one that ties two of your interests together. It's number one on the veteran hit parade I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJVpihgwE18


Thanks Niner :) My band's doing well, we are now recording our second LP. Here in Italy it's very hard to make success with English songs, but we had nice reviews by abroad listeners, we are still looking for a label!
We play some covers in our gigs, but since we are fans of 60's psychedelic music and 70's progressive rock, here in Italy people usually don't know them! Haha!
We also did an EP with some covers of our favourite psychedelic bands, here's the link to listen to it:
http://theselfishcales.bandcamp.com/album/dandelion-seeds-highlights-and-rarities-from-psychedelic-sixties

P.S. I also draw on my helmet THE DOORS and LOVE logos:
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Niner Alpha
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Re: Vietnam war 9th Infantry Division reenactment from Italy

Postby Niner Alpha » Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:30 pm

Nice K98 and 91/30. Does your Mauser still have all of the Nazis proof marks on it? Lots of them were imported into the US by way of former Communist Block countries as surplus. The Communists really hated the Nazis and first scrubbed the weapons of the Waffenamts and other marks. This was partly because they were moved into government storage as secondary arms. The commies got them as part of the reparations after WWII when the victors divided the spoils and only in the last twenty years disposed of them. They had become so obsolete in the AK age that they were dumped at nearly scrap prices. Only in the last ten years or so have a much better marks remaining batch shown up from some place in Russia. Can't tell from the photo, but if the stock is solid wood it is on the early end of production and if it is laminated it is later. If the numbers weren't removed you can tell what factory made it by a code number. And another thing the Russians promoted was taking all of the weapons apart and then dumping the parts in a pile after doing whatever they wanted to do to them and then put weapons back together again by what they took to be interchangeable parts. This sort of worked....but it is hard to find a rifle that had been owned by Russia of any sort that isn't a mixed bag of serial numbers. The bolt won't even match receiver..unless force matched with old serial numbers lined out and new ones engraved on to match.

I collect old military rifles .... which we American collectors call milsurps.. . and I have a website dedicated to the hobby. Milsurpafterhours.com .

By the way, I have a couple of Italian issue Carcano rifles. One is a carbine called a Moschetto TS. It's about as short as a US 30 caliber M1 carbine. The odd thing about it is that it was converted during the war to fire the German 7.9 Mauser round from the less powerful 6.5 Italian round. I've fired it with old 8mm Turk ammo although the standard clip won't hold the rounds. The action is really quite robust and could handle the heavy round and fairly powerful load. Although shooting it on one outing I consider an adventure and shooting it regular would be tempting fate.
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Gabriel Cale
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Re: Vietnam war 9th Infantry Division reenactment from Italy

Postby Gabriel Cale » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:37 am

Here are some pics of the markings:
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Sadly not every single part has the same serial number, but the major part of them 60/70% has the number 2434, including the stock.
Some little parts may have different numbers.
Cool forum, I think I'll join it, because I love to collect them! :)
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Re: Vietnam war 9th Infantry Division reenactment from Italy

Postby Niner Alpha » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:50 am

If I'm reading it right the Ce is J. P. Sauer & Sohn, Waffenfabrik, Suhl, Germany. Looks like a laminate stock and a 1943 date. Yours still has at least some of the original marks. That would make it more valuable than otherwise. Too bad not all of the serial numbers match....but that's not unexpected. Good that as many match as do.

I hope you do join the Milsurp forum. We have a pretty international group that shows up regularly. I don't remember what the capture question is at the moment but if you have any trouble with it let me know and I'll help you out.

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